He sees the Dark Lord as a rival and also an aspiration. Balrogs are intelligent sentient beings. :)#LordoftheRingsWhatIf #Saruman #WhatIfSaruman Hes of the same order of beings as Sauron, so he certainly has enough power to effectively use the ring. Did she think she could have avoided being drawn to Sauron if she did seize the Ring? Well what DID the Ring do for Sauron? Sauron w. After that, in the Undying Lands, Sauron was more powerful. In Tolkiens writings, they came across the sea. Unfortunately, the woman did not remember the name of the stone and we will be in St. Thomas next week (YEAY) so I was wondering if anyone had any idea what this stone . If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. Saruman had full control of his army, which is why the Hobbits were being brought to him (because they maybe had the ring), instead of immediately to Sauron (who at the time of their capture, they were much closer to). After all, they would both want the other one's full and utter . "Greetings, Naruto Wraithslayer, wielder of the Faerdagnir. Its probably been done already, and if so I apologize, but: If Saruman had gotten his greedy lil mitts on the one ring, would he have been able to set himself up as a new dark lord (or however they call themselves)? She's an Elf, So Has a Very Long Lifespan. Elemental Staffs. How successful would Saruman be finding and capturing the Ringbearer in this scenario is speculative but one has to wonder would Sauron not notice this activity. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. He could turn invisible and go slowly crazy, which seem to be the width of the one ring's powers. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. Saruman's power is that of influence, both in a political sense of his influence as the highest member of the council, but also in the sense of being able to have some control over other people . Which probably wouldn't have happened. New Movie News, Movie Trailers & upcoming Movie Reviews, Saruman Gaining the One Ring Would Have Doomed Middle-earth Even Faster, Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil, How Morgoth Created Glaurung and The Lord of the Rings' Dragons, REVIEW: Frank Miller Presents Ancient Enemies: The Djinni #1 Crafts a Compelling Origin Story, REVIEW: DC's Shazam! To a lesser degree Faramir's disobedience also saved the Quest. It only takes a minute to sign up. https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! 2463, Saruman was appointed its leader.Even then, he had begun to sense the resurgence of Sauron and to envy and desire his power, and especially his One Ring.Coincidentally, in that same year the One Ring was found by the creature Gollum, drawing the Dark Lord closer to the conflict that would eventually prove Saruman's undoing. The Lord of the Rings; Middle-Earth (Franchise) entertainment news By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Sauron's power (and Gandalf's too). He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? He would have also learned where the Fellowship was broken and knowing the Ringbearer's true purpose would assume his destination would be the Black Gate which indeed it was until Gollum convinced Frodo otherwise. But what if the Stranger is a different wizard we all know from The Lord of the Rings? Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. On February 26, 3019 Eomer, Third Marshal of the Riddermark, set out against orders from his king to hunt an orc band coming from the east. He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The Lord Of The Rings. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. What did Tolkien originally write? Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. He writes about everything from NCIS to Stranger Things to The Walking Dead and everything in between. In fact, he had started searching for the . Mostly, though, he most enjoys writing about Star Wars. Saruman was Maia like Sauron. He will likely go through some things, but that would mean the Gandalf we meet in the Second Age is largely the same as the Gandalf in the Third Age. Through them Tolkien shows Faramir and Eomer's quality was in not being blind followers of loyalty and obedience to king and father but seeing a bigger picture and being obedient to a greater purpose. With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. Tolkien. Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange! I never really understood how they fit into the picture - I presume the nine gave to their bearers some ability, but ultimately corrupted them and turned them into the nazgul, which I guess was their purpose. That success would be the usual bitter victory, though, because first the new wielder of the ring would need to build his own power, and learn the mastery of the ring. I also assume that Sauron would have eventually won the war. You would have a situation where Saruman knows exactly where the Ringbearer is headed and Sauron knowing Saruman is suspiciously concentrated on the area from Parth Galen to the Black Gate. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Feel free to contact him by email at hawkins.blake12@gmail.com, or find him on Facebook. When Gandalf meets Saruman in Orthanc, he notices that Saruman is wearing a ring. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram. Lucky hit or not, he was vulnerable to a mere sword with no great magical ability or anything displayed that showed the ring as some huge magnifier of magical ability. In the books it is mentioned several times that Sauron fears one of the uber good guys getting hold of the Ring. Why Did Eru Give Men The Gift Of Death And Not to The Elves too? I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. And so that's what Gandalf was pretending to do, while they were actually taking the Ring to Mt. I think people project a kind of loaded weapon mentality onto the rings which is misleading. He wanted the One Ring. It would be a delicate balance. By the time we meet Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, hes up to no good. Whether he judged correctly is another matter, but I would expect it to be a contest. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. Sauron was the Dark Lord in The Lord of the Rings saga, written by J.R.R. We learn that Denethor, steward of Gondor, had used the Palantir to divine knowledge of the Enemys movements only just before the steward burns himself alive. CK Goksoy - https://www.artstation.com/ckgoksoyIvan Cavini - https://www.ivancavini.comTed Nasmith - https://www.tednasmith.comPeter Xavier Price https://www.deviantart.com/peetAdam Middleton - https://www.artstation.com/adammiddMagali Villeneuve - http://www.magali-villeneuve.comThumbnail Art: \"Saruman\" - (Artist Unknown)\"Black Orcs, Uruk Hai\" - Skinny22\"The Ring\" - Helm1892Art in order of First appearance:Saruman - (Artist Unknown)Saruman with the Palantir kuliszuThe One Ring - benjamin-lindquistMiddle Earth KlaradoxWay to Mordor IribelIsengard Uruk - Tey BartolomeThe Riders of Rohan TurnerMohanSaruman OtisFramptonSaruman the White DanielGovarSauron The Lord of the Rings - William FaucherSaruman fanart - Samthalsabey-ArtSauron - AnotherStranger-MeSaruman the White - YoungPhoenix3191Saruman VihrushkaGandalf the White - Suzanne-Helmigh Saruman AlMaNeGrAFortress of Isengard monpuasajrBlack Orcs, Uruk Hai - Skinny22Helms Deep - Paul LasaineUruk-hai AlexBocaOne Ring to Rule Them All (LOTR) AnatoFinnstarkThe White Rider ralphdamianiEdoras AllrichArtSaruman - Cocoz42The One Ring - LOTR - Jimmy-AppeltSaruman the White adenryTheoden, King of Rohan ArtisAllanRohan peetAmon Din aegeriSaruman JleonardKSaruman jalvMinas Tirith SamscrapbookGandalf the White FacuamThe last march of the Ents GrazianoRoccataniThe Istari - Ivan Cavini(Gwaihir saves Gandalf - Miruna-Lavinia)(Ents TolyanMy)Treason of Isengard lostknightkgSaruman gaberoseartSaruman - KelseyMH33Merry and Pippin icanfeeltheearthturnSaruman of Many Colours TolmanCottonSaruman and the Palantir malibunnySaruman the White pfodraThe Five Istari (Wizards) - (Arist Unknown)Saruman - aquiles-soirBattle of Dale - (Artist Unknown)Sauron NynseiSaruman the White MattDeMinoOrc Warrior - (Artist Unknown)Nazgul StyooNazgul darekzabrockiSauron Jerry VandersteltUruk-Hai JHKrisSauron War of the Last Alliance MattDeMinoSaruman - malara-artWitch-king of Angmar - Vulpes-IbucultaSaruman LychnobiaSaruman - Concept-Art-HouseSauron-As He Sat The One Ring Upon His Finger IngvildSchageArt----------All content falls under fair use: any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and transformative purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. I imagine it'd be a similar situation as if Gandalf or Saruman got The Ring. The three, which Celebrimbor made, were not made to gain dominion over others. Either way, Saruman through torture or his Voice would have quickly learned everything about the Quest of the Ring. He would have been able to control more people, and he would have had a much easier time dominating their wills. So what's a few millennia. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? What percentage of recruits fail boot camp? Gandalf - open displays of power versus his restrictions as an Istar. Saruman remained in the East for hundreds of years, only returning to the West when Saurons power started to grow. Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines, The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese, Replacing broken pins/legs on a DIP IC package. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. It may not display this or other websites correctly. But there are important differences between Saruman's position, if he had taken the Ring in Isengard, and Frodo's position when he claimed the Ring in Mordor. Ummm, thats what the One Ring does for someone who has zero magical ability. As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. The Mystics, believing the Stranger is Sauron, tell him he must go to Rhn to fully explore his powers. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. However, The Lord of the Rings TV series still left plenty of questions for future seasons. Exactly. Despite an erratic and feeble end, for long he was one of the wise, and for long desired the ring; he could not possibly have failed to consider Sauron's response. Thus, the power of the Ring is both direct (like the power of a weapon) and symbolic (like the power of a cult object). This just had to be the best designed set, even better than the 2017 UCS Millennium Falcon! Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. Not unless Saruman got the ring. This moment was part of an overall mistake, and they could be wrong about this observation, too. However, that's not the most likely scenario. The first thing you need to realize is just how long a gap there was between the two trilogies. Frodo was a hobbit with one companion, in the heart of Sauron's realm. How long before Sauron wrung out the truth from Saruman? How to show that an expression of a finite type must be one of the finitely many possible values? I would think that Saruman, a Maia, would be in that category. This is what Sauron feared that his enemies would do, if they got the Ring; and that's the only reason he feared them. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. In the chapter "the White Rider" (LOTR Book 3, chapter 5), shortly after Ugluk's foray has been defeated, Gandalf gives a detailed analysis of Saruman's motives and Sauron's concerns. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. **Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. So it's possible that someone of sufficient power could break the Rings bond to Sauron. Yet, he had . We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). RELATED: The Lord of the Rings: 10 Details About Sauron's Costume You Never Noticed This incident, one of those that was invented for the film to increase tension, is an incredible missed opportunity for the minions of the Dark . The White Wizard -- at the height of his power -- could have been a match for the Ringless Dark Lord. But now that he was back in Mordor, he was openly . There was a Winged Nazgul operating near the area as well on the other side of the Anduin and thus closer to Frodo. Not true. There's the slight possibility that Saruman would have given the One Ring to Sauron and served as lieutenant to the most powerful being in Middle-earth. How might the Ring have helped Saruman in his empire-building? Loyalty is an important theme in Tolkien's world and obedience to authority is paramount in a medieval setting as in Middle-Earth. Tolkien Blog - by Michael Martinez Even some of the imagery in his scenes screams Gandalf. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but . These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. It's a good question. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? RELATED: How Morgoth Created Glaurung and The Lord of the Rings' Dragons. For all things Tolkien, Lord of The Rings, and The Hobbit Press J to jump to the feed. The Palantri. Unfortunately, Sauron had got on the wrong side of a particularly powerful race: the Nmenreans.The isle of Nmenr was a realm of men that sat apart from Middle-earth and those who lived there were more powerful than the men seen elsewhere in The Lord of . The villain created The One Ring, where he put most of his power. What money is available for senior citizens? Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? So He would do what He did after His defeat by Isildur. I'm a little vague on this point. Director Peter Jackson adapted the books into six films divided into two trilogies The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.More popularly referred to as The Lord of the Rings movies, watching them in chronological order helps viewers place certain disparate events . And they are similar to, if slightly less powerful than, the Maiar? Although this is never explicitly stated, Galadriel alluded to the Fact that Gandalf, . Their power was in preserving and healing the hurts done to the earth, and to those who were harmed by evil. Courage to ones fellows, hope in adversity, and comfort to the suffering were the powers enhanced by the three. Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. First off, it gives us an idea of how dangerous the Ring is- if the head of the Istari and White Council can . All betting content is intended for an . . What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. In the hypothetic situation where Sauron thought, or knew, that Saruman had the Ring, I think he would have responded in a similar way. He is Maiar. After his friendship with Nori, that would hurt. Although he never appears directly in the books and is only shown in the movies in a flashback to the War of the Last Alliance, his corruptive influence is felt nearly everywhere in Middle-Earth. For one, the Ring wasn't a tool or a weapon of war that anyone could use for anything. Please don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with all future content! Although they did oppose the will of Sauron, while he did not have the one, they were still subject to his will, if he regained it, and all that had been done with them would be revealed. When Sauron thought Aragorn had the Ring, he reacted with a swift military offensive. He aided Frodo but he did not save him or the Quest from certain ruin as Eomer did by attacking the orc band. Why did Saruman seem to believe that Sauron wouldn't return? House of Dragons vs. (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) His three friends were smiling at him, but Gandalf was only managing an embarrassed smile towards the Lady. However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. I mean, he was supposed to be powerful ANYWAY was he not? Narsil was no ordinary sword, and the Numenoreans weren't ordinary men either. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? I suspect that most of us think Saruman's treachery is so fundamental to Lord of the Rings, that it is almost impossible to imagine the epic without it. Blake Hawkins has written TV and movie features and recaps for CBR since March of 2021. mostly minifigs and decorated bricks. Hidden realms of elves in the past had undone the plans of Morgoth himself, and Sauron was not likely to let such a thing go unchallenged. Saruman wants to be Saurons only servant. JavaScript is disabled. As such, Saruman wouldn't have been able to use the Ring against Sauron, per se. No doubt he would have exercised all his powers searching the area from Parth Galen where the Ringbearer departed to the Black Gate. Remember, the greater part of Saurons strength was poured into the ring. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? IIRC the idea of Galadriel taking it scared the bejeezus out of him. . For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the . What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? Eomer had no clue about rings and quests. Elbereth Vala Varda said: Saruman fell to darkness regardless. He caught up with the orcs and destroyed them in the early hours of the 29th. Amy Ratcliffe is the Editor-in-Chief for Nerdist and the author ofStar Wars: Women of the Galaxy, The Art of Star Wars: Galaxys Edge, The Jedi Mind, and more. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten his hands on the One Ring? He definitely volunteered to go to Middle-earth first. Well? If not for Gandalf, Gondor might've fallen to Sauron. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. Some interesting conjecture, but you're forgetting that if anyone replaced Sauron as the "master" of the One Ruling Ring, they would sever Sauron's tie to the ring and essentially reduce him to an ineffectual spirit who could no longer interact with the physical world. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. His actions were more indirect as his decision was of non-action in not taking Frodo to Minas Tirith. It allowed him to recover multiple times after his physical body got destroyed. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. So it is my assumption that Saruman wanted the One Ring so he could forge his own Ring of Power. In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. That means Frodo had to destroy the Ring to destroy Sauron for good. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Why does Gandalf seek counsel from Saruman about the One Ring after leaving Frodo in the Shire? https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! What if: One of the primarch's had landed on the world of Avatar the Last Airbender. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Both the direct and symbolic aspects could have helped Saruman expand his empire by winning adherents and frightening potential opponents. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. The free people of Middle-earth had possession of Sauron's One Ring, but that was only a minor Read more on cbr.com. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. . Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. Saruman wasnt an elf, or even a man. Frodo would have continued into Mordor and odds are he would have been discovered there. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? They are not beasts. Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? The situation in The Lord of the Rings was pretty dire. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, but it has to be said that there were a few different shapes of both characters. There's a moment near the end of The Two Towers when one of the Nazgul comes literally within arms' reach of the Ring.It happens in the ruined city of Osgiliath. If we have not credited an artist, it is because we could not find an owner of the art. What happens next? The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Tolkiens complex writings and retcons dont reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. I got down on bended knee at the top of the mountain and proposed. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . Sorry, memory fails me ATM. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. (Letter 246). Saruman was corrupted already so was a good candidate for the One Ring, through him it could exert Sauron's will to enslave all Middle-earth. Gandalf was hand-selected and sent by Manw. That he will never do now." Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: Please message us if we have not credited you! What about orcs, or trolls wielding the rings taken from the dwarves? Maybe, though i dont know that much about Sauman's power and. If Saruman had taken and claimed the Ring for his own, Sauron would have been aware of it immediately. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. One other Seeing Stone has been accounted for: the Stone of Minas Anor. Tolkien said of Saruman, also known as Curumo: The first to come was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the Eldar, as the head of the Order. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. In the chaos Eomer created, two hobbits managed to escape with the help of a greedy orc and met with an ancient being which in turn led to the ruin of Saruman. And if the hearts of men were not so easily tainted, the Ringwraiths might never have been brought into being.